Subject: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: gardenhose Date: 7/16/2002 7:00:09 AM IP: 4.63.188.234
I've been reading some threads that say Leung Ting was NOT taught by Yip Man. If so, who did he learn from? Leung Sheung?

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: OMT Date: 7/16/2002 11:01:00 AM IP: 205.188.197.41

Leung Ting's first teacher was his own uncle, Cheng Pak from his mom's side of the family. Ting had studied under him for about two years before joining in Leung Sheung's class as a regular member for about four to six months, mostly Ting was training under some of Leung Sheung's students, that's the reason Leung Sheung had told the HK reporters, Ting was never his student, because Ting had never gotten a chance to feel Leung Sheung's hands. Two months before Yip Man's death, one of Yip's students went to visit Yip Man for a lesson, Leung Ting had begged this guy to take him along to see Yip Man, so Leung Ting had worked out a plan ahead to have someone hiding behind Yip Man's house, took some photos with Yip Man. Later, Leung Ting used those photos on his books to make some false claims of himself as Yip Man's closed door student. But Yip Man had never took Leung Ting as anything, Ting was at Yip Man's house for about an hour, that's the first time and also the last time Leung Ting had ever set his foot at Yip Man's house. Later in front of the Yip Man's dead body, Leung Ting was trying to put on another gimmick to have a photo with his white waist band on, but Yip Man's student Mak Po had already found out Ting was up to no good, therefore Mak Po went to tell Leung Ting to take off the white waist band. In the Chinese tradition only Yip Man's students could wear the white waist band(As a son who pays deepest respect to his father in Chinese kung fu custume), for the grand student like Ting was only allowed to wear the black arm band as Yip Man's grand student. There's a photo somewhere to prove this incident had happened in HK. Soon after Yip Man's death, Leung Ting used some of these photos at yip Man's house to promote himself as a closed door student of Yip Man in Germany. That's the story of Leung Ting.

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: tu Date: 7/16/2002 2:46:36 PM IP: 205.188.192.159
a small donkey taught ting all the secrets of wing chun,no ting was taught by a student of leung sheung

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Red41/2Angel Date: 7/16/2002 3:39:12 PM IP: 67.118.1.99
Leung Ting definitely learned under Leung Sheung. He also claims he learned directly from Yip Man, which for some reason, some people dispute. Either way, he got good instruction, IMHO. Red41/2Angel

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Zinjen Date: 7/16/2002 5:42:23 PM IP: 80.1.224.5
Leung Sheungs student was Leung Tings main teacher. Stay away from this organisation. It has all but crumbled anyway.

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Jason Date: 7/16/2002 8:05:14 PM IP: 208.136.201.2
this was put on an earlier thread http://www.dragonslist.com/who/?id=54 it says that leung ting was a student of leung buk who was a student of leung sheung who was a student of yip man

Subject: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Leung Ting Date: 7/18/2002 12:15:00 AM IP: 80.74.0.1
U fool! Have u not seen the fotos in "Roots of WingTsun"? or have u not been to www.leungting.com The fotos thing is rubbish and old news - even LT didnt care for the rumours - cause thats all they are - rumours!

Subject: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Yellow666Devil Date: 7/18/2002 2:05:54 AM IP: 212.83.68.243
Suppose it? true Leung Ting was being teached by Yip Man personally as a closed door student. The comments here would be just the same!!!! Cheers. Yellow666Devil

Subject: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Gunther Date: 7/18/2002 3:23:22 AM IP: 152.163.206.178
Is Mak Po the same person on the grand opening of Ving Tsun Museum in Ohio? I have heard that Mak Po is the Sihing to Moy Yat and Duncan Leung. Even Chris Chan in SF has to pay respect to Mak Po. According to some HK people, Leung Ting is very afriad of Mak Po and Chris Chan these two wing chun masters.

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Josh Date: 7/18/2002 6:23:49 AM IP: 205.188.199.24
Leung Ting was taught by Leung Sheung who was Yip Mans first Hong Kong student.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Jon Dough Date: 7/18/2002 8:33:21 PM IP: 208.136.201.2

A fool will learn nothing from a wise man but the wise man will learn allot from the fool.! http://www.leungting.com/aboutus01.htm <<<<Professor Leung Ting is the Permanent President and the only Grandmaster of the International WingTsun Association.>>>> Hes the only Grandmaster of "his" own style.! <<<< Professor Leung is a WingTsun enthusiast and started learning the technique at the young age of 13. At the age of 20, he was accepted by Great Grandmaster Yip Man (who was also the teacher of Bruce Lee) as his "Closed Door Student".>>>> He "ALSO" taught "Bruce Lee" got to get that plug in there gaining fame through someone elses name.! <<<<The WingTsun King Fu system developed by Professor Leung is practiced worldwide by tens of thousands of martial-arts practitioners, many of which were already martial-arts instructors themselves before they took on WingTsun.>>>> So its not WC/VT/WT then seeing as he developed his own system its JKD.! <<<<Professor Leung was also a famous kung fu film technical director. >>>> Yes Ive seen his name up there with Tsui Hark.! <<<<and when he was in the country, he was invited to direct a kung fu movie titled "Master" in Bombay and cities of South India.>>>> So hes a big "DIRECTOR" in Bollywood.? <<<<At the present moment Professor Leung is planning to produce a 30-episode kung fu series titled “The King of Wing Tsun”, which is a dramatic kung fu story on Dr Leung Jan, the King of WingTsun kung fu in the Qing Dynasty. >>>> So is he going to be doing Great Grandmaster Professor Leung Tings self developed style in this then.?so its not WC/VT/WT.? <<<<The overwhelming reaction has prompted Professor Leung to make up his mind to devote more time to writing more kung fu books, not only on WingTsun, both also on other styles of Chinese kung fu.>>>> So hes not only an expert on "his" JKD but other styles of Kung Fu.? The reason that there are no photos of him at the funeral is because he wasn't allowed in.!He tried to go wearing the same as all of Yip Mans direct students but he was stopped at the door. The man has no respect for any of his elders claiming that hes this and that stop beleiveing his lies and do the research its not hard.!

Subject: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Gio Date: 7/18/2002 9:19:54 PM IP: 213.140.9.151

So...i think that Leung Ting was a GGM Yip Man student...these are the reasons: 1) Sifu Wang Kiu and others, who was a direct student of Yip Man, supports this idea. 2)GGM Yip Man, when he created the Hong Kong Ving Tsun Athletic Association, designed Wong Shun Leung as the Chairman, and Leng Ting as the vice-Chairman: so u think that a traditional master such as Yip Man should put a guy that he seen only in one time as a high member of his association??! 3)The photoes were shooted not in yip man house but in Sifu Kwok Keung's home...so Mak Po isn't the other guy in the Photoes! 4)Why Yip Man goes to seen LT's demonstration if he wasn't, in that period, a student of the late Grandmaster??

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: OMT Date: 7/18/2002 11:12:43 PM IP: 64.12.96.12

Why did Leung Ting replace his head with the reporter's head? The reasons and background checks... 1, Even Leung Ting had managed to shoot a few photos at Yip Man's house to prove to the public that he was there one time but that didn't have enough weight to prove any relation to Yip Man as his teacher. 2, According to the Chinese kungfu tradition, only the real students like William Cheung and Bruce Lee would be allowed to have their Sifu posted with them together. 3, Leung Ting was Yip Man's great grand student, he wasn't important enough to be somebody in the wing chun family. 4, In front of many Yip Man's students like Chris Chan, Victor Ken, Leung Ting had always address them as his great Kungfu uncle. 5. During 1975, not too many of Yip Man's students could speak English, someone like David Peterson wasn't even a wing chun man. So no one could tell the world what's really going on with the Yip Man's wing chun family. 6. Under all these conditions, Leung Ting wanted something to prove himself as an important person in Germany. So, he gambled with this idea of fake photo to make himself as somebody in the Yip Man's family. 7. So, Leung Ting went to Germany, opening up many Mcdojo along with Kieth Kerspecht, suddenly, he's had a huge numbers of WT-Sheep. So his dream comes true, **the first fake wing tsun kung fu masta**. 8. About twenty-some years later, suddenly some HK newspaper man had recovered the original photo of the reporter with Yip Man together at his house. Then Leung Ting almost had a heart attack and he was into hiding for months. 9, No one had seen Leung Ting's face at the first world Ving Tsun convention in Hong Hong in 1999. Why? good question...

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Ron Jeremy Date: 7/18/2002 11:43:52 PM IP: 208.136.201.2
Here he say's he taught Bruce Lee. http://martialarts.iisports.com/product.asp?dept_id=2203&pf_id=VO3101A

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: firehose Date: 7/19/2002 12:30:31 AM IP: 64.95.96.230
Leung Sheung for 5 years or so, followed later on by 9 months with Yip Man.

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: JOHHNY BLAZE Date: 7/19/2002 4:24:42 AM IP: 208.40.37.197
It wasnt Mak poh that told Ting to take off the arm band it was the late great WSL.

Subject: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: OMT Date: 7/19/2002 12:42:28 PM IP: 64.12.96.12

Mak Po is still health and alive in San Francisco, he was at the Ving Tsun Museum a few years ago. Many of the stories were coming directly from Mak Po himself. Anyway, please take note it was white waist band, not black arm band. Leung Ting was trying to put on his white waist band and wanted a photo, but Mak Po went to stop Leung Ting and gave Ting a lecture, then Ting had choice to put on his black arm band as third generation of student of Yip Man. There is a photo of Ting wearing the black arm band. At the begining I believe Moy Yat had that photo, Ting had warned Moy Yat not to put it in public. So, Moy Yat was a gentleman and he had never said anything about Ting's fake photo with Yip Man and the black arm band photo at Yip Man's funeral to the public. But almost everyone within the Moy Yat family know about this inside story. William Cheung also had a copy of Leung Ting's fake photo with Yip Man. Victor Kan had told William Cheung that story about Leung Ting's real wing chun teacher was Ting's own uncle Cheng Pak(Buk). Cheng Pak was a student under Leung Sheung.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Leung Ting Date: 7/19/2002 9:47:59 PM IP: 80.74.0.1
Total Crap Jon, Where was Bruce Lee at Yip Mans funeral??? They dissed him too! it's all politics - its got nothing to do with Wing Chun.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Leung Ting Date: 7/19/2002 9:50:38 PM IP: 80.74.0.1
U dickhead! why does Leung Ting pocess the only footage of Yip Man doing the Long Pole Form???? (yes, it was shown at EWTO 25th aniversery) why dont the so-called Yip Man senior students have it?! Why does Leung Ting have photos of Yip Man at his wedding? at his opening of the Nathan Road Gym (which he took over from YM)?

Subject: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: OMT Date: 7/20/2002 10:54:09 AM IP: 152.163.188.34

<<The reason that there are no photos of him at the funeral is because he wasn't allowed in.!He tried to go wearing the same as all of Yip Mans direct students but he was stopped at the door. The man has no respect for any of his elders claiming that hes this and that stop beleiveing his lies and do the research its not hard.!From Jon Dough>> Let's get facts... There was a photo of Leung Ting wearing Black Arm Band at Yip Man's funeral. Ting didn't want anyone to see that photo but if you want see that photo. It should be somewhere on the net. Ting had tried at least two times to put on a *White waist sash*(Like at Bruce Lee's funeral, Lee's son had to wear the white sash to pay respect to his father) in order to have a photo at the funeral. According to Mak Po, WSL and him had spoted Ting and one of his assistant were ready to set up a gimmick to have another photo in front of Yip Man's dead body. So later he could use that to promote himself as a student of the grandmaster. It was Mak Po and WSL took off that white sash from Ting. Another question about Ting's wing chun experience... How long did Ting train in wing chun?? Ting learned wing chun for two years from his first teacher(also Ting's uncle) Cheng Buk. Ting later joined in Leung Sheung school for 4 to 6 months, but Leung Sheung never liked Ting and never taugh Ting anything directly, Ting mainly learned from his senior student from Leung Sheung school. That's the reason why Leung Sheung had repeatly said to Hong Kong reporters,"Ting was not my student, he's my student's student". Ting had begged one of his friend(Yip Man's student) to take him along to see Yip Man. Ting had a big plan behind this meeting. Later...everybody knew that one hour at Yip Man's house, which gave Ting an excuse to claim himself as Yip Man's closed door student. Ting didn't make that claim until Yip Man pass away two months later. So, let's do the math... Leung Ting spent two years with Cheng Buk Leung Ting spent 4 months under Leung Sheung school Leung Ting spent one hour at Yip Man's house Total is two years and four months and one hour...

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Zinjen Date: 7/21/2002 5:31:11 PM IP: 80.1.224.5
Pictures do not prove anything. The proof is in the pudding, and frankly, the pudding tastes like crap.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: leung ting Date: 7/22/2002 7:51:23 AM IP: 205.188.209.82
I can make my arm grow and gouge your eye out,kick you in the throat all while picking your pocket..heh..heh whana be a master? got some money?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: OMT Date: 7/22/2002 10:56:52 AM IP: 152.163.188.33

<<<why does Leung Ting pocess the only footage of Yip Man doing the Long Pole Form???? (yes, it was shown at EWTO 25th aniversery) why dont the so-called Yip Man senior students have it?!>>> Leung Ting spent a few dollars for Yip Chun and had him fooled with women and book deal(116 mook-yan-jong). That's just one of many gimmicks Ting knew about marketing than most his seniors. <<<Why does Leung Ting have photos of Yip Man at his wedding? at his opening of the Nathan Road Gym (which he took over from YM)?>> Ting's wedding photos couldn't buy him any title in the kungfu culture. In the Chinese tradition, only the real students are allowed to have their personal photo with their sifu like Bruce Lee with Yip Man, William Cheung with Yip Man. That's axactly what Ting was after, a personal photo with Yip Man means a meal ticket and 1000 pieces gold for Ting.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: OMT Date: 7/23/2002 4:16:33 AM IP: 64.12.96.12

How is Leung Ting's WT skills??? (1) Leung Ting had failed to meet the challenge of Law Mong(HK kungfu star-Chu Gar Praying Mantis fighter) in Hong Kong. During the late 1970' Ting was so inexperience and young and gulliable, he didn't dare to accept his first real challenge in his life. (2) Leung Ting had failed to prove himself in NYC, one of William Cheung's student slapped Leung Ting's face. (3) Leung Ting has had no real fighting experience in his whole life.

Subject: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: gorsau Date: 7/25/2002 10:45:30 AM IP: 140.142.167.62
I have the Photo of Ting with the Black arm band!

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: gorsau Date: 7/25/2002 10:56:14 AM IP: 140.142.167.62
I have the original article talking about Ting and the whole scandel, it is from hong kong 1978. It shows the photo of Ting with the black arm band. I will try to scan it and put it on the internet, i don't have a scanner so when i get a hold of one i will do it for all to see.

Subject: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: chuck norris Date: 7/29/2002 8:31:23 PM IP: 62.194.84.35

Yo OMT ZInjen and many others. I award you gays into 10th level of hot air. Come with proof and not bullshit, cause many people will find this A waste of there time reading anti wing tsun stuff on the internet forum for wingtsun. And anybody can talk though on to phone or on the net. But to express oneself truly, that's martial art men(or boys). Any go read roots of wingtsun, You will definately learn some great thing also from other wingtsun branches and and has great foto's of leung ting learning the dummie from GGM Yip Man and leung sheung was also present. And for all you wanna be mf, before you go to sleep be aware of what you right on this forum.

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: iron_monkey Date: 7/31/2002 6:40:33 PM IP: 194.164.132.240

I have studied WT for about a year now. I went to a Leung Ting seminar earlier this year and it was brilliant. He's a very funny, amicable guy and he gave us loads of info. But the best thing he said was "Don't believe me or your instructor, believe in reasons. Believe in the logic in the system". What this boils down to is that I don't give a shit if he was taught my Yip Man or not because at the end of the day WT makes sense and I enjoy training it a lot. Another point I'd like to make is that Yip man taught people in a way that encouraged them to develop their own style using Wing Tsun/Chun as a base. Bruce Lee took it and developed JKD. Leung Ting has taken it and developed WT. There is really no point in arguing over who has the real Yip Man Wing Chun/Tsun because everyone has their own interpretation of it. I suggest that everyone reads this article: http://www.wingchunkuen.com/yipman/ cheunghokkin02.shtml WT is a complete system that trains all ranges of combat including grappling/anti-grappling and ground fighting. I've never heard of a WC practitioner learning to ground fight within the WC system. WT is a system that is constantly being refined whilst retaining a set of core principles. Those concerned with learning the so-called 'traditional' Wing Chun have missed the whole point.

Subject: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: chuck norris Date: 8/4/2002 2:50:16 PM IP: 62.194.84.35

I totalluy agree with you iron monkey. Yesterday a saw a show about a old woman who denies the holocaust, omt and many other remind me of her concerning the issue that leung ting learned from Yip Man. And there is a big defirence between bruce lee and prof leung, leung ting completed the system and bruce must definately didn't. Bruce didn't even know where the center-line was. the proof is in his own books. But he definately understoot the principle of punching hand for foot, cause that way it is possible for a man of his size could knock out someone much bigger. LT Should be respected by saving the system and for the teaching system.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: shorty Date: 8/23/2002 10:12:01 PM IP: 62.194.84.35
Gorsau & OMT really are boring!!

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Zenyo Date: 8/23/2002 10:24:28 PM IP: 62.194.84.35

Yeah man, That LT learned from GGM Yip Man that is a fact, just like indeed the holocaust. LT is living proof, got a lot of evidence to back that up. Or better to say, he's got the most technical wt theories and GGm Yip Man on tape doing actually the luk dim poon kwan and the bart cham dao. And i believe nobody except LT has that material. And he's even in the roots of wt being taught the wooden dummie from GGM Yip Man. So still denying the fact thaT LT learned from Yip Man, than first of all it's pethetic, ignorant and a loser in your own "wt"! Don't let your personal problems hinder the truth. Look at logic and not flash like wiliam cheung who got beaten anyway by a wt guy. And Auguta flong sucks balls to. peace

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Cheek Date: 1/9/2003 12:20:22 AM IP: 213.173.186.9
Its right Wong Shun Leung was three time with me in switerland. We celebratet his birthday here. I visited him about 5 times in HK. We talked about LT. He never study by Yip or Wong. But he is a good buisiness-man. Gorsau is absolultly correct...

Subject: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: MPC trident org Date: 1/10/2003 8:12:46 PM IP: 62.7.82.252

come on chaps. Leung is a fantastic business man who has scratched his way into the wing tsun arena with dirty tricks and oppertunistic genius. Financially he now controls such a hugely powerful corner of the market that it is hard to show him up for the hoax that he is. I honestly respect his entrepreneurial wizadry, but in wing tsun terms he doesn't know his arse from his elbow. I beg all students learning under his guidance or lineage to go do 3 or 4 lessons with a serious instructor (ie S Kwok's Students, V Thom, Potter, Manson, Mckenzie etc- pls not Austin Goah) and see if you still wanna go back. peace+keep fightin who taight Leung Ting? dunno, but my gran probably could have done as good a job.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: troll Date: 1/10/2003 9:51:16 PM IP: 24.239.129.143
l t is a fake . sorry the truth hurts

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: Bad boy bubba Date: 1/14/2003 1:50:19 PM IP: 210.251.192.4

Dont compare Ting to Bruce! Bruce had numerous challenge fights and Ting had none. Ting probably even had less W.C instruction than Bruce. The only difference is Ting lived longer. I think Ting probably did learn from Yip Man, but the question is for how long. And it is pretty obvious that it wasnt for a very long time. But yes, at the end of the day it doesnt matter what the rumours say, let his WC and his students WC speak for themselves. But the biggest problem is his understanding and his students understanding of WC is pretty dam shallow. And they cant see outside their own lineage because they have been brainwashed into thinking of how technique should be. You WTers are blind! If any of you went and checked out the lineages of Ken CHung, Chu Shong Tin, WSL, Victor Kan, Lo Man Kam, Lok Yu etc you would never go back to WT. Seriously! If you spent even a little time with sifus under these lineages you wouldnt go back to WT.

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: kwok who Date: 1/14/2003 6:17:53 PM IP: 217.40.128.105

When I was training Wing Chun I attended a samuel kwok seminar and he was demonstarting the SNT and forgot it half way through. In addition I competed in a chi Sau tournament in which he had many students, surfice to say we took 6 of the 9 available medals. This is my first hand experience of the man, which does not overwhelm me with confidence FOOD FOR THOUGHT????? WT may be bad but a master not knowing the SNT or organising a CHI SAO tournament and having no students win medals. I am not saying whether he is good or bad but it shows how easy it is to make negative judgements!!!

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: The truth teller Date: 1/17/2003 8:35:55 AM IP: 195.93.48.8

It seems to me that this whole exchange (I hesitate to use the word debate)is misplaced because it runs togther two distinct issues that should be kept seperate. The first issue is whether or not Leung ting is any good at wing chun or at least whether the style he teaches his students is any good (which of course pressuposes that it is possible to say exactly what constitutes 'good' wing chun) The second issue is whether or not Leung ting was actually taught by Yip man or whether he has mislead people on this point (whether it be by his words or by his actions (i.e. by doctored photos or the like)and for whatever reason) Now the main point i wish to make is this: That it is possible for Leung ting to have mislead (or lied which ever you prefer)to people about being a student of Yip man and yet for him still to be good at wing chun. But then the opposite is also true i.e. he may have been a student of Yip man and yet not be very good at wing chun, for whatever reason (either because he wasn't naturally gifted or because his understanding of the theory of wing chun was poor or because he didn't train hard enough or because he never 'tested' it and so never got to see what worked and what didn't etc. etc.) I mention this because people tend to argue either that he was a student of yip man and therefore must be good at wing chun (which is not a valid inference to make) or that he wasn't a student of Yip man and so can't be good at wing chun (which is not a valid inference either) Either one of these propositions may be true but, crucially, the truth of one proposition does not depend on the truth of the other. The other point i wish to make is slightly more general: I have found that the best attitude to learning wing chun (and indeed anything) is to be both open minded and critical i.e. to be responsive to new ideas and to not dismiss suggestions out of hand but also not to take what people say or advise for granted without first questioning it or subjecting it to the proper level of scrutiny. In other words test your shapes, test your stance, experiment with different positions/techniques and above all ask questions!!!! Don't put up with unanswered questions and questionable answers from your sifu. Thats all I have to say for now. More later. The Truth teller.

Subject: Re: Who taught Leung Ting? Author: rich mill Date: 3/18/2014 5:25:11 AM IP: 96.39.214.30
I need to know the true masters in america that are honestly from the yip man lineage. I was under sifu chan in Oklahoma city but had to move so I need the true masters. Imperialkingz77@gmail (817) 894-3215 Thanks