Subject: Augustine Fong & Randy Williams's fake Wing Chun Author: wcml Date: 12/14/2001 1:35:22 AM IP:
How many of you have seen Augustine Fong & Randy Williams's fake Wing Chun woodon dummy? After seeing it, I really want to kick Fong & Williams' asses, they made up the fake Wing Chun in order to deceive the people in public. I'm very sick of these Wing Chun Clowns... Any thoughts...!?

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Terence Date: 12/14/2001 3:04:39 AM IP:
Speaking of clowns, why don't you use your real name, tell us about the WCK you practice, and reveal your credentials for making judgments since you seem to think you know so very much? Or, are you just another of those cowards that hide and spout insults instead of standing behind your opinions like a man and a martial artist? Terence

Subject: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: wcml Date: 12/14/2001 3:33:05 AM IP:

Terence, Have you forgotten The Irish Twinkie's post to Rene Ritchie & you? Both Rene & you like to be famous, I'm just a man who like to practice wing chun. Your Sifu Robert Chu also want to be the KING of WING CHUN. Why don't you stand up for your Sifu Chu to chanllege Benny Meng & Kenneth Chung like a real man ?? I bet your Sifu must be very proud of you if you can really prove your skills? Now, it's up to you to prove it to the world, if there're any good students at Sifu Chu's school?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Martin James Date: 12/14/2001 4:10:11 AM IP:
I just used my real name, so now I'm famous? Now I'm the King of Wing Chun? Now I'm rich? What a joke. If you didn't care you wouldn't be posting here at all and if you really wanted to kick Augustine Fong or Randy William's asses you'd be doing it and not just talking big on some posting board. Loser.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Third Party Date: 12/14/2001 8:22:00 AM IP:

James Martin, How do we know James Martin isn't a fake name? So, you maybe just another fool like Terence. Terence, Speaking of * prove * & * skills *, so far Mr. Robert Chu & Terence have had failed to prove their wing chun to the world, but they like to make a name for themselves, and BS about their wing chun this, wing chun that in their own forum. Not everyone shares your single-mindedness when it comes to challenges. That said, Mr. Chu and You ( Terence ) have been talked a lot about others, but you guys have never back up your claims. I can identify with your frustrution. It wasn't so easy for you and Mr. Chu to accept the fact that Mr. Benny Meng's wing chun skills are far superior the Mr. chu's wing chun. So, Terence, please skip the lecture and try to overcome your own obstacles. It would be nice to see you - Chu's boys - to back up your claim. Bty, why did you guys run away from Mr. Benny Meng and Mr. Kenneth Chung in LA? Just curious.

Subject: Can someone explains this? Author: WCstudent Date: 12/14/2001 8:47:40 AM IP:
Why do Fong's dummy tape has many karate movements ( ie, low hook kicks ) ?

Subject: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Oldjong Date: 12/14/2001 9:05:38 AM IP:
Fong made up his own Mook Jong. Back in the 70', not many people knew about WC, that's why no one had ever questioned his videos. But now, people are out of the woods. Fong's wrong! Let's keep Yip Man's WC alive... God Bless!

Subject: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Man in Blue Date: 12/14/2001 10:27:30 AM IP:
What a nonense about 'real name'? A name on an internet forum doesn't tell anything . . . I can call myself Terence, Mark or Robert . . . Real names, but who guarantees that I'm Terence, Mark or Robert? Man in Blue

Subject: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Simon2 Date: 1/13/2002 8:58:51 AM IP: 63.193.193.68
Old Jong, Are you from KFO? Well, I don't like Fong's WC anyway!

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Kungfucowboy Date: 1/14/2002 12:45:30 PM IP: 64.169.90.89
hey Simon, What do care about Fong's WC? Please give A. Fong a break, this poor guy Fong was just trying to make a few bucks off the Yankees... no big deal!

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Eurasian Guilo! Date: 1/14/2002 8:22:17 PM IP: 194.80.32.13
I watched Aug Fong's video with great interest one day. After it started fine, he started doing all this leaning back shit on the dummy leg... my left eyebrow gave a very quizzical look. What a load of poo. I have never seen Randy Williams Tapes, so I can't comment. Try doing that weird hook leg thing In a fight, you'll be in no time.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: joy chaudhuri Date: 1/16/2002 12:06:05 AM IP: 129.219.100.93

Dropping in and out briefly into this land of courageous anonymity that time forgot. No comment on RW. If anyone is serious about finding out what Fong's wing chun is about =best to go to Tucson at his school and see for yourself. Forms including the mok jong form are texts for a subject. Perfectly good editors put their footnotes into the forms and explain why they do so. Yip man himself fiddled with the forms with legitimate purposes in mind. In some of the comments there are obviously lack of distinctions between concepts and applications.That hookung keg lean back is a devlopmental routine...you dont fight excatly like that- but what you do do is develope you low roundhouse adjustments and then controlling the other person.The lean back is for developing & regaining balance(a biu jee principle).Again development and application are different things. A western boxer practices witha speedbag at a certain rhythm and then applies his reflexive motions to peoples heads. Cheers and good bye again.(Sorry no access to spell check or typo corrections) PS Atleast Terence is using his real name and his posts seem, consistent with the real Terence.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Littletiger Date: 1/16/2002 1:21:27 AM IP: 64.170.117.31
If there're more people like Aug. Fong, there will be the end of Wing Chun. I'm glad some of you guys stood up against this fake Wing Chun master. God Bless Yip Man Wing Chun.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Old Jong (the real one!) Date: 1/16/2002 10:24:57 AM IP: 65.92.132.175

I am a member of Augustine Fong's family. Actually,he's my Sigung! Somebody used my name here but I really don't care very much about this because this whole topic is a joke and waste of times. I suggest any of you critics to go to a Fong's seminar and to touch hands with him or one of his advanced students for a few seconds. It is a lot more easy to sit at your computer and write idiotics comments! Bah!...Why am I losing my time here?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Dr.Limberg Date: 1/17/2002 8:28:41 AM IP: 64.169.90.213

Dear Mr. Joy, There's nothing wrong with feeling like something's missing in life. But Augustine made up his own mook jong, that's a big NO NO to the Yip Man Wing Chun family. Fong was wrong, histrionics aside, people have a good point to question Fong's videos. It's worth considering for Fong to accept his wrong doing. Mr. Joy, it's a good time to be circulating your resume instead of acting a mouth piece of Fong.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: WhippingHand Date: 1/17/2002 1:58:27 PM IP: 64.169.90.213

Old Jong, It must be a bad dream for you... after all these years of hard training, fake WC dummy. Cool it with your latest crusade, Joy and you may be turning people off with your particular form of evangelism. Just about everyone is jumping up on a soapbox with Augustine Fong. There are other pressing concerns that demand your attention - go to buy yourself a new jong and find a real WC Sifu who could teach you the real Yip Man Wing Chun.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Kungfucowboy Date: 1/19/2002 12:45:24 PM IP: 64.170.119.165
Old Jong, Joy, Whippinghand, Dr.Limberg and others, This isn't the time to get haughty or vindictive. People will regret their actions soon enough. But this raises the question: Are you fulfilling your expectations? IMO, Augustine Fong's Wing Chun is a Bermuda Triangle mystery!???

Subject: explains this? Author: Jeff_Wong Date: 1/22/2002 7:57:01 AM IP: 64.170.118.58

This issue about the fake Wing Chun. I've seen Augustine Fong's videos and I can safely say that Fong's WC videos have many non-WC movements, such as leaning back, low hook-kick, and many Fong's own invented fake WC techniques. It isn't easy asking uncomfortable questions. There're many nice people here, including Joy and Old Jong, but they just have to come to realize the value of the lesson, in order to preserve and to protect the original Yip Man Wing Chun Kung Fu, there's no room for someone like this WC clown to decieve people in public under Yip Man's name. IMHO, People should compare Yip Man's 116 Mook Yan Jong book with Fong's dummy video, review details and you'll find the answer

Subject: Fong's Wing Chun Author: Andrew Date: 1/23/2002 1:47:14 AM IP: 209.175.47.254

Fong explained his Wing Chun at a seminar last year that I attended. He said that this Wing Chun with any all differences is HIS Wing Chun. That's why he calls it FONG'S Wing Chun and no one elses. He makes no apologies for any changes. He acknowledges them and accepts that responsibility. The question I think that should be looked at is if his Wing Chun is any good? Meeting him and being with him in two different seminars I can say that his is different and effective. His chi sao is good. But this is coming from a beginner. His systematic way of teaching is great for me. Forget tapes. What does he feel like in chi sao? Is he effective? If I just looked at that new VCD that came out a little while ago from Hong Kong I would say that hardly anybody knew what they were demonstrating. But that doesn't mean anything unless you actually physically encounter the person. Fong's Wing Chun is decent just like other famous people's Wing Chun. But I've learned you can't judge by the video tapes. It doesn't do a person justice.

Subject: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: David_Tang Date: 1/24/2002 6:48:51 AM IP: 64.169.88.137

Andrew, It seems like... Fong didn't learn or complete the YMWC system under his Sifu Ho Kim Ming at the 60'-70'. During the 70's there were only a few people really knew about WC, therefore, Fong was able to get away with own fake WC videos under YMWC's name. I'm sure that as a person, Fong may be a very nice guy or a gentleman, but we're talking about to preserve the art of Wing Chun here. This is just my 2 cents.

Subject: Re: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: Dave T Date: 1/24/2002 11:51:00 PM IP: 194.81.48.8
Are any of you here as good as Augustine Fong? I very much doubt it. Show some respect for established martial artists. 'Nuff said, Dave T

Subject: Re: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: joy chaudhuri Date: 1/25/2002 2:21:55 AM IP: 129.219.100.86

In correct David. Fong studied with Ho from 1960- to 1968 and taught for him. Ho himself is very proud of him. Then like a good studnet of a discipline you carefully develop what you have learned about the concepts and principles of your subject rather than mimic or paint by numbers.That is a good way to honor those who made their contributions up the stream. The "leaning" motions (about two of them on the mok jong) are "applications" of biu jee principles or recovering the line and your balance at close quarters if you temporarily lose the line.Every good teacher of a serious subject figure out ways of teaching. Yip Man did that, Ho did that and so did Fong. Come down to Tucson to see the details.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: Tran Date: 2/6/2002 3:27:38 AM IP: 64.170.118.73
Joy, Do you have a school or WC club in Arizona?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: edward Date: 2/6/2002 4:13:11 PM IP: 209.247.233.60
joy stop wasting these time .. let them remain blind.. who cares

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: WSLWC Date: 2/9/2002 9:24:36 AM IP: 64.169.88.227
What would Chu Sheung Tin or William Cheung do and react to Augustine Fong's self invented Mook Yan Jong? Just a thought!!!

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: edward Date: 2/9/2002 11:57:03 AM IP: 64.108.208.64
once again... who cares if anything maybe take some notes

Subject: Shame! Author: ELbert Date: 2/11/2002 8:07:41 AM IP: 64.170.117.181

I agreed! No one knows anything anymore. Many of these so-called wing chun sifus in 70', without finishing their kung fu training and went abroad to USA, later this Fong sifu made some phony wing chun videos to promote himself as a Yip Man wing chun expert in oversea. All thanks to Yip Chun's 116 mook yan jong book. Now people know who's the one cheating us for last two decades in USA. Shame on him. I'm glad to see some of you dare to stand up to chanllege the false wing chun master, that's the only way to preserve the original art of Yip Man wing chun.

Subject: Re: Shame! Author: Kineenosky Date: 2/13/2002 4:13:35 AM IP: 64.170.117.163
Can someone get a copy of Fong'd dummy video and send it to TST and other Yip Man's students. I'm really interested to know what's their opinions of Augustine Fong.

Subject: Re: Shame! Author: Old Jong...A little bit amazed by all of this **** Date: 2/13/2002 11:34:13 AM IP: 65.92.133.49

For those who base their arguments on that Yip Chun/Leung Ting book... I'm sorry to inform you that some sequences of motions were changed so somebody who would have learned from it could be traced! Come on boys and girls all Wing Chun lineage show some differencies in the forms.Masters (like A.Fong and others) do that so you, little kids, can learn better and faster! This is called...adaptation and evolution ,growing up, whatever.

Subject: Re: Re: Shame! Author: Smith_J Date: 2/14/2002 10:22:28 AM IP: 64.170.116.205
Old Jong, Your argument has a big hole bigger than southern China sea, Fong was/is wrong 100%. May God bless you and your wing chun... Amen!

Subject: Re: Re: Shame! Author: VT insider Date: 2/15/2002 1:04:40 AM IP: 168.143.112.104
<<<<<<<I'm sorry to inform you that some sequences of motions were changed so somebody who would have learned from it could be traced!>>>>>>> Moy Yat publish book "108 Muk Yan Jong" maybe 10 years before Leung Ting book same sequence. Moy Yat also write sequence not important. What you think now of your theory?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: a wt guy Date: 2/20/2002 12:46:54 PM IP: 12.81.67.62

-In some of the comments there are obviously lack of distinctions between concepts and applications.That hookung keg lean back is a devlopmental routine...you dont fight excatly like that- but what you do do is develope you low roundhouse adjustments and then controlling the other person.The lean back is for developing & regaining balance(a biu jee principle).- Hmmmm. very interesting. I have heard about this biu jee principle from a wt practitioner recently and I am intrigued. I heard that the idea is really extrapolated from the last three "bows to the buddha" in the form. If you could explain more that would be awsome. Thanks.

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: WC Wooden Dummy Date: 3/21/2002 7:18:57 PM IP: 209.180.139.181

I have to admitted that Augustine Fong is the most innovative student of Wing Chun. If it wasn't for people like us who don't like fake Wing Chun, Fong would have created few more drunkard and monkey moves on the wooden dummy, which then could be passed on to those monkeys in the recent movie "Planet Of The Apes". Who know, it could be interesting to see Fong and Joy all over the Mok Jong like apes on banana tree. The Mok Jong !

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Bo Date: 3/25/2002 1:23:36 PM IP: 63.225.202.101

Joy, I think Dr. Limbert was correct. It is okay for you and Fong's earlier students to practice Fong's fake techniques, but for the sake of Wing Chun's unity, you must teach your students the original teaching of Yip Man. If errors and fakes techniques continue to be promoted then what would it becomes in a few decades from now ? This fake teaching of Fong is his self-delusion and inevitably would lead to more delusional students. Bo

Subject: randy williams ,afong Author: kato Date: 4/4/2002 8:52:46 AM IP: 136.186.1.114
hi guys wc sounds like waally c swinburne uni fake kung fu, ok first i trained a bit with randy and he treated me well and looked after me he is a good bloke as we say in aust and he never bags any other sifu as long as he can use what he knows, and does not claim he is the great student of someone else it does,not matter to his pupials in australia

Subject: Re: randy williams ,afong Author: Yusaf Date: 4/9/2002 8:09:12 AM IP: 205.188.193.56

During the early years of wc, Randy Williams had no ideas about Augustine Fong's fake wc, all made up by Fong himself. Futhermore, some of Fong's students went to see Ho Kim Ming and found out Fong's version wasn't from Ho Kim Ming, after they left for other schools. Fong has a very bad rep in the wc world. Now i think Randy isn't too happy about Fong's bogus claims and his fake wc. Of course you'll always have some people like Joy and Patrick Gordon to say something good about Fong, after all they need to protect their meal tickets.

Subject: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: AussieKicK Date: 4/10/2002 1:04:10 AM IP: 205.188.197.42
Augustine Fong has many funny techniques for his fake wing chun. People like Ho Kim Ming, Chu Sheung Tin, William Cheung, Mark Po, Victor Kan and many others should come out to denounce this Augustine Fong in public. He has had done enough damages to the Yip Man family as well as the wing chun world.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: sagasa Date: 4/30/2002 7:07:20 AM IP: 144.138.164.25

In my meetings and limited training with Master Randy Williams he has always been very open and generous with his knowledge. Why are people now putting Sifu Williams down? In our discussions, Sifu Williams has never claimed to be a master of wing chun or the last word on the art. As he says, he teaches the Close Range Combat Academy interpretation of wing chun. Point out what is wrong with this? He is not claiming lineage to try and attempt to be the sole heir and grand poobah. No, all he is doing is teaching his knowledge and interpretation of the art to those interested in studying with him. And in regards to his books and videos, he and Grandmaster Leung Ting have done much in the way of promoting the art through the various forms of media. Does someone enjoying the success of many years of dedication mean they are frauds. Of course not. Sounds like a bit of envy to me. Ok, back to watch my videos.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: B&B Date: 5/3/2002 12:19:23 AM IP: 152.163.206.198
Quate: "Why are people now putting Sifu Williams down?" I like Randy Williams but not his Fong's fake wing chun.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: kato Date: 5/3/2002 7:53:46 AM IP: 136.186.1.114
i think saggasa is a wise man and randy is a great guy nd top martial arts sify

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Olen Date: 5/4/2002 1:21:56 PM IP: 209.181.105.86
Anyone promoting Fong's Fake Wing Chun is a rat. A rat trying to live of people's hard earned money. I don't care how nice is William's or Fong's. Someone like Fong does not deserve any respects. He is the world's biggest con man. And anyone following his foot step would deserve the same. Olen

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: John Date: 5/7/2002 5:05:43 PM IP: 193.38.88.6

I'm no advocate of any particular style or teacher, but there is no hard and fast way to do anything.... Something can always be improved, that's what makes humans survive this far... our ability to adapt and make things better, so what's the problem, from their point of view they made it better, more excessible, more effective. that's a gift, not theivery! Wing chun is an art based on a system embraces adaptation. Whats the point of doing something over and over in a particular way, if you think there is a better way of doing it? Find what works for you, if someting almost work but needs changing change it. Tradition is a mind set, not a set of moves! John

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: James Date: 5/7/2002 11:57:35 PM IP: 62.190.57.65
I doubt if any of you practise Wing Chun. Sad muppets that jack off to your posts.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: kato Date: 5/9/2002 7:31:12 AM IP: 136.186.1.114
look ive never met or seen augustine fong but randyswing chun is very diffrent to augustine and he does not promote him he class is close range combat and remember he was a pupial under sifu george yua more than he was with augstine, dont comment unless you have met him give the guy a chanche

Subject: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: ZenZen Date: 5/10/2002 7:53:41 AM IP: 209.181.107.165
John, What you said sound good, but what gave Fong the authority to create the new form. For someone who never learned the Mok Jong and made up a fake one to rip off people and defend it by saying it is evolution; it is nonsense. You must be Fong's student.. or definately old Joy himself. That is your stupidity way of reasoning. Please wake up and smell the coffee. ZenZen

Subject: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Mole Date: 5/10/2002 9:41:33 AM IP: 209.181.105.144
John, Do you suggest it is okay for a High School dropout student to invent a new language ? Or do you suggest that it is okey for a high school dropout to invent his own rules of Grammar. Augustine Fong is a Wing Chun dropout who later invent Fake Wing Chun. Now, is that sentence clear to you ? Mole

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Gita Date: 5/10/2002 6:45:32 PM IP: 62.190.57.65
Hoe Ming Sting . Augusta Pong . Joy Churnupyabum All three of these people are an absolute disgrace. How can they teach when their students are thinking They have a level of fitness that stinks of hamburgers from their McDojo schools. They know nothing, teach nothing.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Tom Date: 5/10/2002 11:51:40 PM IP: 146.227.145.86
Kato - I thought Randy Williams' wing chun was more or less the same as Fong's but that because of a falling out he just didn't publicise the fact ? In his books he attributes his training to someone called George Yau and Fong doesn't he. I don't know this for a fact but the bits and bobs of Fong stuff I've seen (especially SLT) do look the same as Randy Williams teaches.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: jimmy Date: 5/11/2002 8:04:50 AM IP: 152.163.206.191
randy should stop teaching fong's fake wing chun for the sake of yip man. i feel sorry for patrick gordon as well, he is innocent but its still not to late for him to look for another real wing chun teacher, sifu dunn wah is a good teacher from moy yat lineage. fong's fake wing chun should be banned, no question about it.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Big Daddy Date: 5/11/2002 1:38:30 PM IP: 152.163.207.211
**Someone like Fong does not deserve any respects. He is the world's biggest con man.** --- Olen That is interesting. I guess I am stuck on who's the world's biggest con man between Leung Ting's fake photo with Yip Man or Augustine Fong's fake mok jong?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: kato Date: 5/14/2002 6:45:11 AM IP: 136.186.1.114

tom you seem like a ok guy look randys ok when i and my bestfriend carlobassi of yin yang do school brought him out we were very surpised, about his very high standed of chi sau and dummy and the things we missed out on bececuase of our former teacher did not want to, teach us,sifu randy is one of the best people i know and i even trained a bit with wong shun leurng just becuase some ones driffrent does not mean he is bad

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: sagasa Date: 5/16/2002 11:02:41 AM IP: 144.138.166.214

Tom, you appear as if you are interested in wing chun and the different approaches to the art. Andre Gide said, "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it." In my experience, I have come to the conclusion that there are many exceptional people teaching wing chun. Often many of these teachers claim to be the carriers of the true art. What we must keep in mind is that the art has evolved and will continue to evolve. This is because once the art stagnates, it will fail to evolve one's experiences and surroundings. Keep an open mind and allow yourself the opportunity to experience the teachings of various masters. Should you attend a seminar by Randy Williams I am sure you will be impressed by his knowledge and skills. It is very evident that he has truly researched the art and put the hours into his training. And he can tell some cool jokes!

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Joker Date: 5/16/2002 12:37:04 PM IP: 209.181.131.75
Oh boyyyyyyy ... why did Fong invent Fake Wing Chun to caused all these mess.. I once visited Fong school and met Fong himself. He doesn't look like the type that is smart enough to come up with something like Fake Wing Chun, but he did. Smart enough to fool all of his students (BTW his students aren't so bright). Joker

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: gorsau Date: 6/6/2002 8:17:51 PM IP: 209.245.175.245
william cheung would probably demonstrate his crippled style wing chun, and chu sheung tin would probably demonstrate his drunken style wing chun.

Subject: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Apollo Date: 6/9/2002 2:53:59 PM IP: 152.163.207.188

If you think Augustne Fong's fake wing chun is that bad, then, what about Kenneth Chung's fake wing chun? His student red5angels has been saying alot of things on another forum about Kenneth Chung's taiji wing chun. Have you ever checked out Robert Chu's wing chun? Some people called his wing chun as hung ga wing chun, but there're some other reports saying Robert Chu's 14 points chi-sau method was actually from chi-sim wing chun, not from Frank Yee's hung ga. Anyway, too many fake wing chun masters.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Rene Ritchie Date: 6/12/2002 12:33:01 AM IP: 66.46.70.2

If you really can't see the "14 points" discussed in the article in almost each and every branch and sub-branch of WCK, please either go find a WCK sifu, or go tell your existing sifu to better prepare you for dealing with the outside world. (And for those few here actually interested in WCK, I recommend any of the Chinese articles on Yuen Kay-San system written by Leung Dai-Chiu, any on Pao Fa Lien written by Mok Poi-On or Leo Man, any on Gulao from the Fung family, Pan Nam, etc. (some of which are translated and posted up at http://www.wingchunkuen.com/archives/readings) as these branches tend to be more explicit rather than implicit about core methodology). Peace, RR

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: NYBrother Date: 6/14/2002 1:07:27 AM IP: 64.12.101.183

RR - You don't speak for Chi Sim Wing Chun or anyone else on this forum. Your business partner Robert Chu, he took Chi Sim's 14 points concept and passed it on as his own. Any Chi Sim Wing Chun practioner can tell you where's Chu's 14 points concept coming from. Chu also did it again with William Cheung's TWC, Robert Chu called it as his Chu's Wing Chun body structure. Chu has been known as a two faces joker to many people. Why did Lee Moy Shan cut off his Sifu and student relationship with Chu? Or you only know one side of the story from Chu? One of Chu's best known trick is that he took someone else knowledge and attacked others in order to promote himself as a Wing Chun Guru. William Cheung, Allen Lee, Andrew Hoffmann, Moy Yat and Benny Meng, they are the true leaders in the Wing Chun World. And you are just anther loud mouth without knowing any extensive Wing Chun knowledge. By cutting down others based on your collection of gossips and rumors, you are really a biggest joker online. What is up with your YKS school? Is YKS really a Wing Chun or a Chop Shup Hung Ga Wing Chun? Did Sum Nung ever give you his premission as a representive of his school? Why are you here speaking of someone else other than your own school?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Rene Ritchie Date: 6/14/2002 8:30:54 PM IP: 65.92.133.130

I write (unless you're hearing voices, we're all writing here, not speaking ;) for myself, not anyone else. I write based on what I've experienced and the opinions I've drawn based on those experiences. Sadly, the only one attacking people and branches, spreading rumour and gossip, mouthing off based on misinformation, branches on this forum is *you*. Again, WCK is one family, with concepts that while they may vary slightly from branch to branch (and even within branches) share the same essance. Some my be more explicit, some more implicit, but we are all WCK. Once again, if you can't see that, find a good WCK sifu and spend some time on cultivating the art. BTW - It's also sad that you're filled, or someone has filled you, with so much hate. That's usually a cheap trick to hide what's happening within. Give it some thought, and find some peace. RR

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Andreas Hoffmann Date: 6/14/2002 11:30:01 PM IP: 80.132.83.104

I? not the leader of the wing chun world. Every family have their own leader. The chi sim weng chun family is thankesful to the work of Rene Ritchie and to Robert Chu. We are different families but we shouldn? attack us in the public. Rene Ritchie, Benny Meng, Robert Chu are friends and Kung Fu family for the chi sim weng chun family. Please, stop to attack friends of mine and try to do something good for our wing chun community. Our life is short. Enjoy your kung fu training. Respectfully Andreas Hoffmann

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Andreas Hoffmann Date: 6/15/2002 3:18:44 PM IP: 217.81.204.247
I? not the leader of the wing chun kuen. Every family and school have their own leader. The chi sim weng chun family is thankesful to the effort and work of Rene Ritchie and Robert Chu. Rene Ritchie, Benny Meng and Robert Chu are all friends of our family. Please, stop to attack our friends, do something supportive for our wing chun community. Life is so short ! Respectfully Andreas Hoffmann

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Najah Date: 6/16/2002 2:57:07 PM IP: 203.40.218.61

There is no fake Wing Chun if you have been given permision by your sifu to teach.My master all ways said there are many ways to climb a mountain and many paths to the top.There is no true style only different paths.Yip Man him self forgot the forms this has been said by his early students including Wong Shun Leung. So if the forms have been changed by him is he a fake?His dummy form has 8 or 10 sections his orginal form has 17 sections and not 108 or 116 movements but 300.Wing Chun is not a style it is a way of combat it is a theory on movement no more no less.

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Josh Date: 7/18/2002 11:15:13 AM IP: 198.81.16.189

I'am an American who was born in Hong Kong and I truly know what Wing Chun stands for and seems like you guys are the clowns here. When I came to America I was instructed to go to Sifu Hawkins Cheung because my grandfather's friend said he is the only true Sifu who teaches the real true style of Yip Man's Wing Chun in America.True students of Wing Chun do argue amongst each other. So I guess you guys are the only clowns here. And by the way the Chinese should have never started teaching Americans because they are the only joke of Wing Chun Kung Fu.

Subject: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Rob Date: 11/10/2002 8:59:10 AM IP: 209.180.113.70

Hello! These so called discussions are a complete insult to the intelligence of everyone involved ,The reasoning is that of jealosy and immaturity at its lowest form.All Wing Chun is real Wing Chun, Just the teachers interpretation , correct? All stlyes are taught the way the teacher understands the art! This may seem like a real revalation to you mindless childlike cyber-masturbaters but hey, get real!! ok!!! If someone teaches a new version of a form it is considered state of the art or up to date, And also , why all the moaning about forms??? the proof is in your tecnichue , not how your forms appear anyway ,Look at bruce lee for example....forms were crap but his technique apeared to be very good,yes? creating is what keeps the art alive ..so be it...grow up , let it go man!!!i have to ask "do any of you actually practice , and why are you so bitter??Fongs wing chun is very advanced and over your heads i think....... best wing chun man i ever met,,, greatest teacher and chi sau too,,, deal with it , it true all the crap i seen is no comparison ........later much......Rob

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: haha Date: 11/12/2002 12:33:32 PM IP: 216.161.148.158
I'd really love to see you try to kick anyones, let alone Fong Sifu. You closed-minded jack@ss. You asked, so that's my thought on the matter

Subject: lamos Author: u cant kik Date: 11/12/2002 4:25:29 PM IP: 216.161.157.91
I bet ya cant kik and ya really cant kik fongs arse! well maybe randy williams, but he didnt really learn from Fong anyway,bye

Subject: fake what? Author: yer momma Date: 11/12/2002 4:27:57 PM IP: 216.161.157.91
did you ever stop to think that the only fake thing on this forum is your pretending to know the difference from real and fake,i dont think you know anything at all and are just trying to cause trouble cause your bored and stupid minded.

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Franklinstein Date: 11/13/2002 1:53:20 PM IP: 68.0.177.141
Is this guy for real? I think whoever started this message about augustine being "fake" is clown shoes. This had nothing better to do than stir up a hornets' nest. Bravo, I have seen AF do plenty of amazing things with his wing chun. And i doubt that he's losing any sleep over this cock-gobbler typing about how much he'd love to kick Regards, boner biter -Franklinstein

Subject: : Re: Augustine Fong Author: oli Date: 8/26/2003 5:38:39 PM IP: 81.109.213.32

Everybody is intiteld to his/her oppinion, it is my beliefe that Si-Gung Fong is a genius, yes he did change things, the only reason he did that is because he believed that they would be more sound. Since Wing Chun is a scientific system that works with optimum body mechanics an understanding of these systems. I'm personally a student of Human biomechanics and to me it seems that the changes Fong made make a lot of sense. If someone doesn't agree, then find an other master, simple......

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: stone Date: 9/29/2003 7:45:25 AM IP: 64.12.96.12
ZenZen, i agree with your comment on fongs fake wing chun. If people follow fongs footstep to create their own forms in wing chun. Whats the point to learn wing chun anyway? fong is the clown and he should be banned in the wing chun community. fongs no 1 son, joy is as quilt as fong, hes been helping fong to promote the fake wing chun in public for a long time.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Shame! Author: African Zulu Date: 9/29/2003 8:35:09 AM IP: 64.12.96.13

Shame on these fake wing chun clowns. Your post also reminds me another clown Hendrik Santo who is another self-appointed wing chun expert. This dude Hendrik santo might be worst than Fong, even Fong knows his place and would not come to public doing his own show and just let his students to do his dirty underware for him. But the other clown Hendrik Santo often drops his 501 blue off on the stage and keeps telling people that he is the current gate keeper, grandmaster of Cho on family, but the funny thing is that nobody from the Cho on family want to support his claim. Its like a monkey jumping around inside of his cage and calling himself as the king of the jungle. These clowns are different animals from the Africa forest.

Subject: Re: : Re: Augustine Fong Author: WTEagle Date: 10/15/2003 2:24:29 AM IP: 152.163.252.33

I can see how many young students who have bought into Augustine Fongs image and hype are uncomfortable with Fongs fake wing chun in this forum. Its hard to come clean for Yuanfen after being brainwashed. No one in Yip Man WC family respects Augustine Fong as an authentic Kung Fu Master. Many wing chun people actually resent the man for selling his fake wing chun videos. Should Augustine Fongs fake wing chun be banned? What do you think?

Subject: Augustine Fong is wrong Author: Wu's student Date: 10/30/2003 3:19:51 AM IP: 205.188.208.39

What is the point about Augustine Fong's fake wing chun? That funny hooking kick, that shoulder trick, that flying elbow hook, that flip-flop uppercut punches, and that incorrect tan sau are all Fong's gimmicks to decieve the wing chun world. According to Ho Kim Ming, he didn't teach Fong that fake wing chun. Fong made up his own fake wing chun. At the HKM's workshop in Az, many folks saw how Fong twisted Sigung HKM's words(HKM don't speak English) to lie to his own students. Even Fong's own kung fu brothers were flipping their eyes to disapprove Fong's double lips talk. That's an act of a con man. I can no longer trust Fong's wing chun as the real wing chun of Ho Kim Ming.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Wu's student Date: 10/30/2003 10:35:44 AM IP: 205.188.208.39
That old Joy talks too much craps behind his computer screen, but he has no intention to improve his fake wing chun under Sigung Ho Kim Ming.

Subject: Re: Re: : Re: Augustine Fong Author: Come Clean Date: 1/7/2004 8:36:46 AM IP: 152.163.252.34
Where did Fong's fake wing chun come from? Did Fong made it up himself or from Karate-"that low hook-kick"? Did Fong know anything about the real Ip Man Dummy? Why did Fong tell lies to his own students about the truth of HKM's Tan Sao? Can Yuanfen or other Fong's students answer these questions for us here?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: : Re: Augustine Fong Author: flaco Date: 2/5/2004 7:24:13 AM IP: 205.188.208.39

Originally psoted by Gangsterfist [[Just one last point. I have never trained with augustine fong, but I do own an 8 DVD set of him doing forms drills, wooden dummy, etc. He looks back weighted slightly on this dvd set. So its a total of like 20 hours of footage or something like that, with augustine fong in every second of it. That is where I draw my inference. He is my sigongs kung fu brother and my direct lineage, I was told that his 50/50 triangle foot work is not 50/50 its like 55/45 just not evenly weighted. Then again we could just be arguing semantics.]] Gangsterfist, Augustine Fongs wing chun CANNOT represent YIP MAN/HO KAM MING WING CHUN. As we all know Fong created his fake wing chun under YIP MAN WING CHUN FAMILY NAME. That is the problem.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: : Re: Augustine Fong Author: Old Jong Date: 2/7/2004 1:54:32 AM IP: 65.92.129.238
I realise just how useless it is to talk to most of you here but,I will say it again: If any of you want to quit talking trash and trolling and visit a Fong lineage school to SEE and FEEL by yourself You have absolutely no idea of what you are "talking" about. Enough said!

Subject: fong stuff Author: gingerfists Date: 2/7/2004 10:16:22 AM IP: 64.169.91.151

old jong, what about that old article of your sigong fong from robert chu..... robert was just one of the many folks who telling the similar story about fongs fake wing chun ..."two of fongs students went to hong kong to pay a visit to HKM, later they found out the true background of augustine fong stuff is not the real stuff." gansterfists sigong can also tell you that fong twisted HKM's words, and told lies to his students in front of everyone at his workshop in az. joy just want to cover up fongs shortcomings in order to protect his own rice bowl. since your not a sifu..... why cant you come clean yourself to admit to the fact that fong made up his stuff to cheat people by selling his fake wing chun videos?

Subject: Joy should smell coffee Author: Wu's student Date: 2/8/2004 4:28:36 PM IP: 64.170.116.63

(JOY)In correct David. Fong studied with Ho from 1960- to 1968 and taught for him. Ho himself is very proud of him. Fong's fake wing chun videos. It's all about marketing and making money off from those wing chun spring chickens like OLD JONG and Patrick. Fong twisted Ho's words and told lies to his own students. Gangsterfist's sigong was there and he can tell you what was going on at Fong's school in Tucson. I think we can all agree to this, Fong has had been playing Ho like an old fool. (Joy)Then like a good studnet of a discipline you carefully develop what you have learned about the concepts and principles of your subject rather than mimic or paint by numbers.That is a good way to honor those who made their contributions up the stream. May I ask what are Fong's concepts and principles? And why people cannot find them in the Yip Man wing chun family and Yip Chun's 116 wooden Dummy book? (Joy) The "leaning" motions (about two of them on the mok jong) are "applications" of biu jee principles or recovering the line and your balance at close quarters if you temporarily lose the line. As always you aren't shy to tell your stories to cover up Fong's craps. Are you saying Fong didn't make up his stuff? (Joy)Every good teacher of a serious subject figure out ways of teaching. Yip Man did that, Ho did that and so did Fong. Come down to Tucson to see the details. Not only insulting Yip Man and Ho, now you are also insulting those folks (including Gangsterfist's sigong, Don Grose and others) went to visit Ho in Tuscon, and they saw everything. That's why they are here telling us their side of story of Fong.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: Burning Monkey Date: 2/9/2004 10:19:30 PM IP: 195.92.67.70

Hey Guys that fong got it all wrong, the story goes that Fong once discovered an old book handwritten by Victor Kan where Kan explains how he once saw a fight between an elephant and a monkey and from watching there movements developed his own supieror style which had the agility of an elephant and the strength of a monkey. Fong used the old Kan textbook for a number of years but before long he realised a classical error , Kan forgot to mention the dummy form. So using all his wisdom developed his own form for the dummy using all the fancy footwork of the elephant with the scientific approach of a monkey. Anyway its all history now Im currently studying the Willam Cheng style and have to say theres a lot more to it than used to be. For example in the new master levels we are taught how to constantly defend against elbow attacks with are head, this leaves the hands a feet free to wriggle around on the floor.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: : Re: Augustine Fong Author: gv_wingchunpr Date: 2/10/2004 11:56:31 AM IP: 196.28.48.100

I really hate to enter these types of debates, for some people are just plain stuborn, and can only be taght a lesson in person. I too sometimes wonder why AF made the changes he did on the dummy form,among other things. my instructors had trained for many years under another reknown sifu and after they checked many WC sifus versions, they became followers of Fongs wing chun system. I trained with them for 6 years in Fongs sistem and to this day it has worked favorably for me when I have crossed hands with other wing chun practitioners from other linages. besides when you check the theories and concepts as he teaches them, they make a lot of sense. I have a video recorded of him in 1984 prior to the ones sold by panther videos(wich do not do him justice and very little to fully represent his skill) showing him performing chi sau, with 2 of his top students, at the time and his speed, form, structure, timing, techniques, even at the high speed that he demostrated were superb quality, as compared with some of the other so called masters and grand masters videos tapes that I've seen where at speed there techniques become a blurr of sloppyness, and a fight using muscle instead. if you look into some older versions of WC from mainland china you will find many of the techniques and elements that fong has kept in his system. remember grand master yip man modified the system during his last 20 years of of his life and this can be read about in the books by master yip chun and leung ting among others. in the debate printed many years ago (mid 80s) by inside kungfu magazine while many masters were making a fool of themselves claming to have the true , original, best, etc. version of wing chun. master fong just stood back and humblely presented a series of articles on the theories , concepts, and techniques of the system he teaches, and demostrated an indepth knowledge of the system. no one ever wrote a letter to the magazine with negeative comments, on the contrary. as the chinese fable of wisdom notes: for you to try someones elses tea, you must first empty your cup!

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Italian Bruiser in PA Date: 2/11/2004 2:23:30 AM IP: 24.49.65.239

It's so funny how easy it is to hide behind a screen and pass judgement. I guess people get jealous when they come to terms with the fact that they will never be recognized for their personal efforts in WC, and they would rather shoot off at the mouth rather than put up their hands. I think that anyone who has anything negative to say regarding Fong or Williams should have the balls to put their money where their mouth is and step up. Matters like these are easily settled.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: : Re: Augustine Fong Author: noname Date: 2/11/2004 9:19:04 AM IP: 62.255.64.5

shame, too many of you seem to put too much emphasis on the critique of others the time you spend anylising the wc of everbody else is time you could have spent disecting and improving how you youselves function within the art. to be honest as a warrior and a martialartist i feel the shame that you bring upon every martial artist, it shows that there is no respect for anybody - least of all yourselves. master fong may well have innovated within the art of wc, observed a more biomechanically sound way of organising and executing principles, it is men like master fong who keep the system moving with time advancing with the current real time threats, what remains history preserved never improves, what goes forward with progress will not be hindered, master fong it seems has simply done what most wc masters have done, modified the original teaching, only fong has modified it in such a way that we can understand the principles easier, every different lineage dummy form i have seen has been different, who has the original? i dont believe master fong has ever claimed he has, how many other masters can say that? some of the best wc people i have EVER seen have come from fong lineage. how many masters nowadays seek to emulate the final recordings of gm yip man performing slt and ck and the mj, that to me seems bizare - why emmulate a guy who has had major surgery, can hardly stand, is missing half of his stomach and is dying of throat cancer?if you seek to emmulate yip man at his most terminal then that is fine - but slating a visually and practical ever evolving dynamic wc system shows complete ignorance to tha able and a clinging to what has been look upon as the truth but is proberbly the biggest lie ever. wake up people

Subject: Fong used the old Kan textbook Author: Ringo Date: 2/12/2004 7:35:07 AM IP: 64.12.96.13

Originally posted by Fong used the old Kan textbook for a number of years but before long he realised a classical error , Kan forgot to mention the dummy form. So using all his wisdom developed his own form for the dummy using all the fancy footwork of the elephant with the scientific approach of a monkey. Thanks for new evident of Fongs fake dummy. Where is that old Kan textbook? And Can i get one somewhere?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: : Re: Augustine Fong Author: Old Jong Date: 2/13/2004 7:11:48 AM IP: 65.92.129.204

It is incredible to see how a great art as Wing Chun can be made a joke by some cult followers of a certain way of thinking.Wing Chun is not a style .It is a system that is supposed to free the practitioner from his limitations. Most of what he will learn is for developmental reasons and can be taylored to the individual or as the sifu sees it fit for his students.This is exactly what Yip Man used to do in his times.This is why we have such a variety of approaches to Wing Chun and everybody is free to find what is best for him. My own Sigung,Augustine Fong,as many others just do that.He is always looking for ways to make his students and his descendance progress in the art. This is his way and there is no heresy to Yip Man or even Master Ho there. The Wing Chun principles are there to stay. Being proud of a lineage is good but respecting the practitioners of other lines of the same art shows some good spirit and honesty.It would be very good if a certain kind of childish and dishonest bashing would stop in the Wing Chun world.We would at the same times find a new respectability good for everyones. Let's instead promote an healthy competitive sense to keep the art going up instead of dragging it in the dirt for a change. Wing Chun will be the big winner.

Subject: I disagree Author: Sigong Ho's grandstudent Date: 2/14/2004 6:39:51 AM IP: 64.12.96.14

{{It is incredible to see how a great art as Wing Chun can be made a joke by some cult followers of a certain way of thinking.Wing Chun is not a style .It is a system that is supposed to free the practitioner from his limitations.}} Old Jong, Fong only learnt the first twenty movements of MYJ from Sigong Ho and he made up 80% of the crap. {{Most of what he will learn is for developmental reasons and can be taylored to the individual or as the sifu sees it fit for his students.This is exactly what Yip Man used to do in his times.This is why we have such a variety of approaches to Wing Chun and everybody is free to find what is best for him.}} Fong didn't learn the complete set of MYJ. Sigong Ho had pointed out Fong's poor body structure at the workshop in Tucson. {{My own Sigung,Augustine Fong,as many others just do that.He is always looking for ways to make his students and his descendance progress in the art. This is his way and there is no heresy to Yip Man or even Master Ho there. The Wing Chun principles are there to stay.}} Sigong Ho had spent about twenty minutes explaining how to do the Tan Sao in the proper way, and Fong twisted Sigong Ho's words to support his own principles, but not Sigong Ho's principles. {{Being proud of a lineage is good but respecting the practitioners of other lines of the same art shows some good spirit and honesty.It would be very good if a certain kind of childish and dishonest bashing would stop in the Wing Chun world.We would at the same times find a new respectability good for everyones. Let's instead promote an healthy competitive sense to keep the art going up instead of dragging it in the dirt for a change. Wing Chun will be the big winner.}} You have a good point, but the sad part is that the real MYJ would be destroyed by Fong's fake wing chun videos.

Subject: Re: I disagree Author: Old Jong Date: 2/14/2004 11:40:20 PM IP: 65.92.133.149

Sigong Ho's grandstudent. You seem to be very sure of your affirmations...Or you want us to think so!...IMO (And I'm sure about this!) The fact that you consider a simple serie of movements (fonction over form you know about?...) like the MYJ as a religion proves that you absolutely know nothing about Wing Chun. You should know that Yip Man himself (or should I call him "God") made many changes to his version of the "sacred" MYJ!...A.Fong made some changes to the forms for his own reasons witch some may disagree with but who really care about this?...It works for his students and it's the important thing here. BTW...You will find differencies in the forms of Yip Chun and Yip Ching!...Just to say.

Subject: Can Yuanfen explains this? Author: Wing Tsun Express Date: 2/17/2004 9:05:51 AM IP: 64.12.96.14

Yuanfen, Randy Lee is also from HKM lineage and his mook jong is very different than Fongs stuff. Instead of talking !@#$%^& about others, why not share with us where did Fong get his stuff from? Wing Tsun Express (Yuanfen sez)In another post and from time to time Augustine Fong apparently is mentioned in passing. Again... needs no defending. I never respond in that forum. Its largely ,perhaps not always, a den of anonymous trolls....looking for a response to play with in an adolescent format where folks dont have to take responsibility for what they say..Apart from anonymuty folks sometimes type in other people names as their own just to stir up conflicts. The problem is not limited to the VTAA lista but it is most glaring there.

Subject: Re: Joy should smell coffee Author: don grose Date: 2/17/2004 12:09:22 PM IP: 68.63.184.46

I don't know who you are. Before you start using someones name in your post be sure you know what you are talking about. Yes I went to see Master Ho at SiFu Fong's school. I don't speak Chinese so I can't comment on what was said in Chinese. I can only take the other person word for what was said. I did not hear anything that I was not told by my instructors. I di notice a double punch the SiFu Fong has in the middle of his SNT. We don't put in the form but we do practice it as a aux. punching drill. So Whats the problem here. The hooking leg is not in our wooden dummy but it is similar to the circle step in Biu Tze. So whats the problem here. First I am not a student of SiFu Fong's but I did on one or two ocassions practice at his school. After introducing myselfto SiFu Fong he invited me to practice with them. I found his students friendly and welcoming. I did a little Chi Sau with his students and they were of high quality IMO for what is's worth. SiFu Fong teaches his Wing Chun I have my Wing Chun. It matters little what you feel or believe. If it works it works. If it follows the principle of Wing Chun then whats the problem. You guys argue about what is true Wing Chun. Well I don't know. I have experienced Malaysian Wing Chun, Vietnamese Wing Chun. Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun. Victor Kans verson of Wing Chun, Listened to Yip Chun and Yip Ching about there two version of Wing Chun, Moy Yat about his version and Tsu Tien Chun (SP) and Leung Ting's Wing Chun. All different but all the same. It's like ice cream. Chocolate, Vanilhla, Rocky Road. all different but all still ice cream. So Get a life practice what you SiFu has taught you. Sell your computer and become a better person.

Subject: the "sacred" MYJ! Author: Sigong Ho's grandstudent Date: 2/21/2004 7:36:50 AM IP: 67.115.132.135

{{You should know that Yip Man himself (or should I call him "God") made many changes to his version of the "sacred" MYJ!}} Yip Man was the grandmaster of wing chun and Fong was just a young student from Macau. {{...A.Fong made some changes to the forms for his own reasons witch some may disagree with but who really care about this?}} his own reasons?....Fong didn't know the complete set of MYJ and he invented his fake MYJ. {{...It works for his students and it's the important thing here.}} Sigong Ho tried very hard to correct Fong's mistakes, but Fong wouldn't listen to him.

Subject: Re: the Author: Old Jong Date: 2/22/2004 10:14:08 AM IP: 65.92.132.219
Sigong Ho's grandstudent You invent your lies as you need them and you are completely hopeless. Nuff said

Subject: {{LIES}} Author: Sigong Ho's grandstudent Date: 2/24/2004 1:20:56 PM IP: 205.188.208.40
{{You invent your lies as you need them and you are completely hopeless.}} Old Jong, Whenever you apply yourself to writing, {{LIES}} comes between Fong and you, not Sigong Ho, not Sifu Wu, not ME. It is {{you}} chose to present false information with the intention of deceiving.

Subject: Re: {{LIES}} Author: Dale NJ Date: 5/26/2004 12:55:46 PM IP: 152.163.252.101
I bought Fong's videos, they're very different than what I've learned. Where did Fong learn his Wooden Man Dummy from?

Subject: Re: Re: {{LIES}} Author: Tom Caprio Date: 5/31/2004 10:23:40 PM IP: 222.126.11.42

Having met and attended seminars taught by Randy Williams, I found his skills very good and his discussion on the fine points of wing chun to be great. In fact, the clarity of his explanations was exceptional and I and others learnt a lot. In regards to Fong, he is a joke. This is well known in the wing chun world. In HK while I was there, he was viewed to be a joke by the practitioners and masters. In fact, his own yeacher is not pleased with him

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: unknown Date: 6/22/2004 6:46:48 AM IP: 64.136.27.229
didnt you learn anything from wingchun, we are all brother and sisters, there is no need to put down another master because you do not understand his concepts about wing chun, there are so many that say they have learn wing chun, but statement like the one you left on the form, shows the real one's that not learn anything.

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Ed Date: 2/18/2009 3:12:53 AM IP: 82.37.17.99

Hi Folks, Wing Chun is a discipline like any other. There is Traditional Wing Chun (A.K.A. Ip/Yip Man lineage etc...) and there are modernisations, Such as Fong's Wing Chun and Bruce lee's Jeet Kune Do, and countless others. One will Learn 'Authentic Wing Chun' and then adapt the system to one's own ability and/or add new movements to condition, develop and 'iron out' any inherent weaknesses. Wing Chun Practitioners should remember, that the Pole form and The bart jam do are not original Wing Chun forms and were added much later, so if you're 'nit picking'- you shouldn't continue your studying of Wing Chun, with the said forms included!. Also - it is not a crime to adapt and develop martial arts. Thank-you for your time Peace Ed:)

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: hasan sheikh Date: 3/22/2009 4:32:03 AM IP: 86.173.184.210
where is your proof for all this mate?

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Ynot Date: 4/24/2009 12:18:12 AM IP: 173.24.0.21
The green-eyed dragon is rearing its ugly head on this page. No wonder wing chun is not a popular art. Who in their right mind would want to surround themselves with hateful jealous people?

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Bruce leisure Date: 4/27/2009 9:44:49 PM IP: 206.138.130.3

Victor khan is a joke, or should i say Victor Con. Fongs Student mowed him over at one of his seminars in Phoenix. The poor scoundrel could not even execute the most basic techniques to defend himself and looked a little flabbergasted at his miserable performance.Furthermore he could not even explain the most basic questions about the wing chun system. The poor chap never was seen in these parts again. He should be tarred and featehred for perpetrating a fake master which seems common these days

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong is wrong Author: wingchu Date: 10/12/2009 6:40:00 AM IP: 71.104.88.78

You sit on the computer denouncing and accusing. Here is some advice go to Tucsan Arizona during Fong's seminar (around May) Accuse him in person, those of you who say he is a fake are not using the spirit of Wing Chun. The spirit of Wing Chun is to destroy or intercept any thing that comes your way.If you see a problem intercept it and destroy it. I have met Fong and his many students they are good people. I do feel the style is different from what I have learned but they are Kung fu brothers and sisters. You are what is wrong with Wing Chun today.

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong is wrong Author: Oli Date: 11/8/2009 2:25:16 AM IP: 81.96.93.155

By your comments I can only judge that non of you really understand Wing Chun, SiFu Fong has not changed the Wing Chun system, he has simply repaired it. He does not say that any one else is wrong, he merely provides his view on the system, I have been lucky enough to study with him and his instructors on occasions and it has opened my eyes to the world of Wing Chun and it's possibilities. His concepts are sound, and they work! How can you judge a man and his work if you have never trained with him or spoken to him? Kind Regards, SiFu Olivier van Overbeek Bournemouth Martial Arts Bournemouth, United Kingdom

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: JeffRowan Date: 5/29/2010 11:25:43 AM IP: 24.61.120.42
I have studied with Fong directly in Tucson AZ, I come from a Kenpo and Xing Yi/Taiji background. I think what he teaches is developed from the principles he learned from his teachers. There is no one way in Martial art.people who think that there is only one way, must have very bad kung fu.

Subject: Re: Fong's Wing Chun Author: Sifu Booth Date: 7/6/2010 1:14:08 PM IP: 71.179.149.206

I realize that I am replying to a very old discussion thread. However, I hope this reached you or someone else of interest. Unlike a lot of people posting comments in this forum, I have been to Tuscon and actually touched with Master Fong. After years prior to me going to see him and his students in person, and years afterwords, due to my training and continued journey, I can honestly say that that for one,there are certain members of Sifu Fong's Federation that do not follow that tenants set forth by his web designer one Dean Johnson who is a recognized instructor in Fong's Wing Chun Gung Fu Federation. However, Master Fong does have some very good people in his organization such as Randy Chu, Brian Tufts, and William Denny. I learned a lot about chi sao from Master Fong, however, I totally disagree with some other aspects of his application of Wing Chun. An example of this is what Master Fong calls braising, which is used to block a kick, at least as taught back in 1998. This technique can get your wrist broken by any good kicker. When I attempted to explain this to one of his students, the student, who was not even a black sash to exception, and wanted to fight. Many of the issues covered in the section that is supposed to be on Master Fong's expectations were thoughts I relayed through email to him and obviously transposed by his web designer Dean Johnson. I have taught students instructed by people recognized by Master Fong such as Terrance Carling as well as Patrick Gordon who by the way both uses Fong's Logo despite being prohibited in Fong's site that basic foundations were so far of that we had a good laugh after they learned the correct way of doing things. Master Fong needs to understand that everyone that says they are your friend is not.

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong is wrong Author: Sifu Booth Date: 7/6/2010 11:11:00 PM IP: 71.179.149.206

For one, this is a free country, and for those that ridicule for speaking against Fong, they need to study and learn their constitutional rights. On of Sifu Fong's problems is that he came here to the states at an early age. To early for anyone to feel that he is above challenge and or ridicule. He needs a new sidekick beside Dean Johnson, one of his so-called recognized instructors that is also his web designer and written spokesman.

Subject: Re: Can someone explains this? Author: Sifu Booth Date: 7/6/2010 11:14:09 PM IP: 71.179.149.206
I have personally invited Sifu Fong to participate in a seminar with myself on numerous occasions. I was always told, he would send one of his students. That never happened.

Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: Sifu Booth Date: 7/6/2010 11:16:20 PM IP: 71.179.149.206
If you think Wing Chun is for beating people up, then no matter who your Sifu is or was, he did not get the discipline instilled in you.

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong is wrong Author: Sifu Booth Date: 7/8/2010 10:53:59 AM IP: 71.179.149.206
The funny thing about it, you can't tell his students and instructors that there is any other way. In reality, Fong is no different than William Cheung for those who are familiar with that controversy.

Subject: Re: Augustine Fong Author: manuel culwell Date: 9/21/2010 10:07:42 PM IP: 99.195.151.47

You need to be really silent about that which you know nothing! The greatest student of Yip man, Bruce Lee took Wing Chun and interpreted it for himself and saw both the strengths and weaknesses and built upon them for himself Just Like Randy Williams. If you do not see that, then remain a traditionalist and a purest for the art you love. Bruce was a pugilist and that is what he cared about in his philosophy .

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Subject: Re: Re: Re: Augustine Fong Author: arosajas Date: 10/29/2010 8:48:04 AM IP: 71.197.84.70

Hey keep Ken Chung's clean name out of this.... the man spent ten years with a teacher that taught in 3 shifts full time and was in highest circle of Yip Man's top core of students.He actually got trained rather than just taught. He is the perfect gentlemen that you would expect high level Sifus to be and yet is one of the most dangerous fighters I have ever met. He , like his Sifu and top classmates, are in a class all of their own. The Sifus you mentioned are not even in the same league, but how could you ignorant wannabees know. Try him out sometime or if you don't have access to him but are still brave enough, go to the local Zoo; brake into the Polar bear cage and attempt to fight the bear. The end result will be the same....hahahaha!

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